From jenndewolf at yahoo.com  Fri Feb  1 03:28:32 2008
From: jenndewolf at yahoo.com (Jennifer J. DeWolf)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 00:28:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cohousing] out near hillsborough
Message-ID: <747284.97612.qm@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

but not on any water.
fantastic property, reminds me of the clapping hands land.
they have divided the property into two lots.
jjd

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865759/
 http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865758/ 
----------------------------------------------------- 
"For those with the purity to see it, a nursing mother
is one of the most precious, most beautiful, and most holy
of all possible images of woman." -Christopher West
----------------------------------------------------- 
I am my kid's stay-at-home mom, 
and my husband's stay-at-home wife. 
www.dewolffamily.com







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
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From paul at afterhoursconsulting.org  Fri Feb  1 11:10:57 2008
From: paul at afterhoursconsulting.org (Paul Vail)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Fwd: Realtor.com Listing #914427
References: <20080201071912.3B57F15EC01@smtp1.phx.move.com>
Message-ID: <D9B0CE17-C8E2-4744-91E1-F3851232F335@afterhoursconsulting.org>

Jen,

Yes, I think this parcel is the one for sale pretty much across the  
street from ours.  If one Google Earth's our address, the forested  
stretch of land is to the west of our street:

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and to my untrained eye, that looks like about 100 ac.  I've not  
walked those woods yet, so I don't know what the terrain is like, but  
I'm pretty sure there isn't even a bold creek back there.  It's  
rolling terrain like our neighborhood.  The square target supposedly  
pointing to our house is about 1 ac.  (It actually points to our next  
door neighbor -- our house is immediately to the left of it with the  
white gravel drive.)

So 16 ac on Carpenter Pond Rd is to the right of the road on the far  
left.  Don't know how deep in or the shape of the lot.

Interesting.  $35k/ac asking.  Pity there's no creek.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "jennifer dewolf" <AHomeListing at realtor.com>
> Date: February 1, 2008 2:19:05 AM EST
> To: Paul <paul at afterhoursconsulting.org>
> Subject: Realtor.com Listing #914427
> Reply-To: "jennifer dewolf" <jenndewolf at yahoo.com>
>
> This is an automated message sent by a REALTOR.com(R) consumer.   
> Please do not reply to this email.  To reply to this person, please  
> use the following email address: [mailto:jenndewolf at yahoo.com]
>
> This email is from:
>
> First Name: jennifer
> Last Name: dewolf
> Email Address: jenndewolf at yahoo.com
>
> I found this property on REALTOR.com(R).
> is this near you guys?
> anything interesting about the land?
> jjd
>
> View this listing on REALTOR.com(R): http://homes.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27703-1076501933/
>
> Property Address:
> Carpenter Pond Road
> Durham, NC 27703
> MLSID # 914427
>
> Basic Property Attributes:
> $584,850
> 16.71 acres
>
> Sincerely,
> jennifer dewolf
>
> Courtesy of:
> The REALTOR.com(R) Marketing System
>
> - - - - -
>
> For questions and support regarding REALTOR.com Marketing Systems,  
> please contact our Customer Care department at (800) 878-4166.  We  
> are available between the hours of 6am to 5pm PST, Monday - Friday.
>
> A:18364376
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>
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> NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS(R) and are used with its  
> permission.  These and all other trademarks used in this work are  
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>
> REALTOR.com(R) does not send file attachments.  Beware of any emails  
> that include attachments that you are not expecting.
>
> Copyright (C) 2007 Move Sales, Inc.  All rights reserved.
>
> The information in this work is believed reliable but is not  
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> independently verified.  Suggestions, advice, strategies and all  
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> after your own independent verification of reliability, application  
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> technical, legal, real estate, accounting and/or other professional  
> advisors.  As to any information reporting on the performance or  
> results of others or indicating findings, conclusions or estimates,  
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>
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>



Paul S. Vail
After Hours Consulting
6013 Old Horseman Trail
Raleigh, NC 27613
919-271-7479
www.afterhoursconsulting.org



From dennisdewolf at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 21:25:40 2008
From: dennisdewolf at gmail.com (Dennis DeWolf)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 21:25:40 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Notes from Footpath Meeting
Message-ID: <8c36256f0802031825u270441cek664b6861eee65f1d@mail.gmail.com>

It was a good meeting with about 15 people.  I got there a little late, but
I took down some notes (see attached).  I talked with Paul (developer)
briefly about our situation.  He had some very good suggestions about
watching out for buying land with high infrastructure costs (ex. water/sewer
not present, roads, etc).  He said that he knows of other small groups of
families that are at similar stages to ours.  He offered to join one of our
conference calls just to give us tips on how to get started (they have been
working this project for a few years now).  They have lived in co-housing
for 10 years, and they have researched them quite a bit for this project.
If you all are interested at all, I can talk with him about joining one of
the calls.

dd
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From David at RothResourcesInc.com  Mon Feb  4 00:20:47 2008
From: David at RothResourcesInc.com (David Roth)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 00:20:47 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Notes from Footpath Meeting
In-Reply-To: <8c36256f0802031825u270441cek664b6861eee65f1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00df01c866ed$b3659380$6701a8c0@RRIGateway>

Great info. especially that there are others out there considering doing the
same thing. we have competition.  Good for more builders, etc to be
involved, bad that they are looking at the same land we want.

 

David Roth   919-961-6084  

david at rothresourcesinc.com

www.RothResourcesInc.com 

  _____  

From: cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net
[mailto:cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net] On Behalf Of Dennis DeWolf
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 9:26 PM
To: Local families interested in AP HS Cohousing
Subject: [Cohousing] Notes from Footpath Meeting

 

It was a good meeting with about 15 people.  I got there a little late, but
I took down some notes (see attached).  I talked with Paul (developer)
briefly about our situation.  He had some very good suggestions about
watching out for buying land with high infrastructure costs (ex. water/sewer
not present, roads, etc).  He said that he knows of other small groups of
families that are at similar stages to ours.  He offered to join one of our
conference calls just to give us tips on how to get started (they have been
working this project for a few years now).  They have lived in co-housing
for 10 years, and they have researched them quite a bit for this project.
If you all are interested at all, I can talk with him about joining one of
the calls.

dd



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From nancywalters44 at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  4 15:57:57 2008
From: nancywalters44 at hotmail.com (Nancy Walters)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 15:57:57 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] food for thought
In-Reply-To: <8c36256f0802031825u270441cek664b6861eee65f1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8c36256f0802031825u270441cek664b6861eee65f1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-W419EA4548B8D2A8CFD81D3DE330@phx.gbl>


This interesting post (and subsequent comments) came up on one of the blogs I read. I don't think it's new information, but some of the desires for community that we're working toward are expressed in lovely ways and words.  And a bit of dissent -- which makes the world go round, yes? Anyway, a read if you have an extra moment:
http://berlinswhimsy.typepad.com/berlins_whimsy/2008/02/simple-but-rich.html#comments




_________________________________________________________________
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From David at RothResourcesInc.com  Wed Feb  6 15:45:42 2008
From: David at RothResourcesInc.com (David Roth)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 15:45:42 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Check out the house and solar in this article.
Message-ID: <00b201c86901$3d8f62b0$6701a8c0@RRIGateway>

This article (link) was sent to me from a relatively new member of our
Cohousing group... Jaye McDermott.  Thought I would forward it on :-)

David Roth   919-961-6084  
david at rothresourcesinc.com
www.RothResourcesInc.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: jaye mcdermott [mailto:jayebird at nc.rr.com] 
To: david at rothresourcesinc.com 
Subject: We met these folks on our Oregon cruise. Check out the house and
solar in this article.

Check out this web site for solar living information.  Very interesting
people that have gone off line, live on under 15,000 a year in Northern
California.  

Jaye


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2005/0720c.html 



http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/2005/0720c.html 
































































































































































From jenndewolf at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  6 23:38:41 2008
From: jenndewolf at yahoo.com (Jennifer J. DeWolf)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 20:38:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cohousing] some properties
Message-ID: <486608.9630.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27704-1085925296/
near falls lake.  across the road from lake.

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1080992455/
big lot out towards hillsborough.  looks like make some type of development?

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865758/
check out the additional pictures.  quite beautiful, barn, old house, meadows.
lot next door
http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865759/
be sure to check out the featured virtual tour link, the rotating red house

http://trianglelistings.marketlinx.com/SearchDetail/Scripts/PrtBuyFul/PrtBuyFul.asp?prp=mls&AgentId=D02028&EmailKey=23550608
huge house started, never finished.  north central durham.  once removed from actual eno river park land.  sort of in the area of the park entrance we went to for the nature's classroom, West Point Park.


 
----------------------------------------------------- 
"For those with the purity to see it, a nursing mother
is one of the most precious, most beautiful, and most holy
of all possible images of woman." -Christopher West
----------------------------------------------------- 
I am my kid's stay-at-home mom, 
and my husband's stay-at-home wife. 
www.dewolffamily.com


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 
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From David at RothResourcesInc.com  Wed Feb  6 23:54:58 2008
From: David at RothResourcesInc.com (David Roth)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 23:54:58 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] some properties
In-Reply-To: <486608.9630.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <019c01c86945$97577410$6701a8c0@RRIGateway>

I like the one with the barn, only $3k/acre. wonder if we have water access?

 

David Roth   919-961-6084  

david at rothresourcesinc.com

www.RothResourcesInc.com 

  _____  

From: cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net
[mailto:cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net] On Behalf Of Jennifer J.
DeWolf
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:39 PM
To: cohousing at mail.rduonline.net
Subject: [Cohousing] some properties

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27704-1085925296/

near falls lake.  across the road from lake.

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1080992455/

big lot out towards hillsborough.  looks like make some type of development?

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865758/

check out the additional pictures.  quite beautiful, barn, old house,
meadows.

lot next door

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865759/

be sure to check out the featured virtual tour link, the rotating red house

 

http://trianglelistings.marketlinx.com/SearchDetail/Scripts/PrtBuyFul/PrtBuy
Ful.asp?prp=mls
<http://trianglelistings.marketlinx.com/SearchDetail/Scripts/PrtBuyFul/PrtBu
yFul.asp?prp=mls&AgentId=D02028&EmailKey=23550608>
&AgentId=D02028&EmailKey=23550608

huge house started, never finished.  north central durham.  once removed
from actual eno river park land.  sort of in the area of the park entrance
we went to for the nature's classroom, West Point Park.

 


 

----------------------------------------------------- 
"For those with the purity to see it, a nursing mother

is one of the most precious, most beautiful, and most holy

of all possible images of woman." -Christopher West

----------------------------------------------------- 
I am my kid's stay-at-home mom, 
and my husband's stay-at-home wife. 
www.dewolffamily.com

 

  _____  

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>  your homepage.


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From David at RothResourcesInc.com  Thu Feb  7 00:00:14 2008
From: David at RothResourcesInc.com (David Roth)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 00:00:14 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] some properties
In-Reply-To: <019c01c86945$97577410$6701a8c0@RRIGateway>
Message-ID: <01a701c86946$53d4eeb0$6701a8c0@RRIGateway>

Sorry it is late. my math skills have "left the building."  that is more
like $23k per acre.w/ building.

 

David Roth   919-961-6084  

david at rothresourcesinc.com

www.RothResourcesInc.com 

  _____  

From: cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net
[mailto:cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net] On Behalf Of David Roth
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:55 PM
To: 'Local families interested in AP HS Cohousing'
Subject: Re: [Cohousing] some properties

 

I like the one with the barn, only $3k/acre. wonder if we have water access?

 

David Roth   919-961-6084  

david at rothresourcesinc.com

www.RothResourcesInc.com 

  _____  

From: cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net
[mailto:cohousing-bounces at mail.rduonline.net] On Behalf Of Jennifer J.
DeWolf
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 11:39 PM
To: cohousing at mail.rduonline.net
Subject: [Cohousing] some properties

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27704-1085925296/

near falls lake.  across the road from lake.

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1080992455/

big lot out towards hillsborough.  looks like make some type of development?

 

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865758/

check out the additional pictures.  quite beautiful, barn, old house,
meadows.

lot next door

http://www.realtor.com/realestate/durham-nc-27712-1091865759/

be sure to check out the featured virtual tour link, the rotating red house

 

http://trianglelistings.marketlinx.com/SearchDetail/Scripts/PrtBuyFul/PrtBuy
Ful.asp?prp=mls
<http://trianglelistings.marketlinx.com/SearchDetail/Scripts/PrtBuyFul/PrtBu
yFul.asp?prp=mls&AgentId=D02028&EmailKey=23550608>
&AgentId=D02028&EmailKey=23550608

huge house started, never finished.  north central durham.  once removed
from actual eno river park land.  sort of in the area of the park entrance
we went to for the nature's classroom, West Point Park.

 


 

----------------------------------------------------- 
"For those with the purity to see it, a nursing mother

is one of the most precious, most beautiful, and most holy

of all possible images of woman." -Christopher West

----------------------------------------------------- 
I am my kid's stay-at-home mom, 
and my husband's stay-at-home wife. 
www.dewolffamily.com

 

  _____  

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>  your homepage.


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From haithr at med.unc.edu  Sat Feb  9 21:27:56 2008
From: haithr at med.unc.edu (Robert Haith)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Meeting Tomorrow?
Message-ID: <47AE612C.4020004@med.unc.edu>

Is there still going to be a meeting tomorrow?  We couldn't make the 
conference call and there hasn't been any mention of it recently on the 
list.
-- 
Robert Haith
OIS Client Services
109 Medical School Wing B, CB# 7045
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-7045
(919) 966-1325
haithr at med.unc.edu


From jenndewolf at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  9 22:58:09 2008
From: jenndewolf at yahoo.com (Jennifer J. DeWolf)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Cohousing] Meeting Tomorrow?
Message-ID: <971519.85238.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

yes,
meeting tomorrow.  1pm at the Roths.  potluck.
anyone feel free to add anything.
jjd
 
----------------------------------------------------- 
"For those with the purity to see it, a nursing mother
is one of the most precious, most beautiful, and most holy
of all possible images of woman." -Christopher West
----------------------------------------------------- 
I am my kid's stay-at-home mom, 
and my husband's stay-at-home wife. 
www.dewolffamily.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Robert Haith <haithr at med.unc.edu>
To: cohousing at mail.rduonline.net
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2008 9:27:56 PM
Subject: [Cohousing] Meeting Tomorrow?

Is there still going to be a meeting tomorrow?  We couldn't make the 
conference call and there hasn't been any mention of it recently on the 
list.
-- 
Robert Haith
OIS Client Services
109 Medical School Wing B, CB# 7045
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-7045
(919) 966-1325
haithr at med.unc.edu

_______________________________________________
Cohousing mailing list
Cohousing at mail.rduonline.net
http://mail.rduonline.net/mailman/listinfo/cohousing


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From paul at afterhoursconsulting.org  Mon Feb 11 10:16:45 2008
From: paul at afterhoursconsulting.org (Paul Vail)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:16:45 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Fwd: Update on Preservation Lands
References: <9e151acf46d861b74c991ff5c64103ba@enrichingpeople.com>
Message-ID: <83369B74-13DD-49E0-8D7A-C61FADA18057@afterhoursconsulting.org>

Hey gang,

In follow-up to yesterday's meeting, this is just some FYI regarding  
how one of the historic trusts views the properties.

Mich and Dave, I may have left that brochure at your place.  If you  
have created a folder for 'coho' info, kindly dump it within as a  
reference.

Does anyone/everyone think we may be at a place where we need to  
better define what we are (or are not) willing to occupy in terms of  
the 'right' coho environment?

Nancy and I had a side conversation which basically went like this: '  
we *want* something that's close to *this* vision, but if a very  
different environment came along that somehow peaked our interest,  
we'd like to take a look at it.'  (Did I get close, Nancy?)  So that  
does 2 things for me: spawns more varied 'what if' scenarios, and has  
me looking to see what it is that I want to get out of a coho  
situation.  Do I want dense-pack akin to a pseudo town-home village?   
Do I want to live where I hear street noises all day and night?  Am I  
ready to do a coho experiment?

I think I'm ready for that kind of community, but I know that there  
are some things I would like to avoid ('urban noise' -- cars, sirens,  
street lights, endless lawnmowers, leaf blowers, even the near  
constant drone of heat pumps -- it is not something I like or would  
want 'more' of).  I think living in the flight path of RDU is far more  
noise that I like.  Yes, one 'tunes' it out.  But I'd like to do  
without instead.  Some of my favorite memories have been ice storms  
where the sound and light pollution becomes so obvious due to its  
absence.  It's like getting a free deep breath of something clean for  
me.  Then slowly all that 'background' noise returns.

Funny how a 'little' thing becomes important when you sit down to try  
to focus on all the other little things.  I'll move on.

Dave and I have talked and we both feel that going with a local  
(somewhere in the greater Triangle) coho would give us a 'practice  
run' on whatever permanent homestead we'd settle upon in the long- 
term.  The coho solution may turn out to be that permanent solution --  
really don't know that yet.  We both feel that a little space between  
homes gives sufficient elbow room.  Tongue-in-cheek, that means not  
being able to see your neighbor in their underwear hanging laundry in  
the back yard.  Is that important enough to all families to help  
direct where we want to live?

Most families seem ok with concepts of joint commons and land for  
gardening, pasture, woods.  I think we all realize that it comes with  
the unspoken commitment of getting in touch with your inner Amish and  
lending an appropriate hand for helping care for 'common' things as  
needed.

Most families seem ok with concepts of joint workshop/barn, 'though  
'how large' is a question.  (I'm shooting for 3000 sq ft + myself, but  
if livestock larger than a guinea pig is involved, that number or the  
outbuilding count could grow).

Most famiilies seek ok with concepts of joint play space (a communal  
'great room' for gatherings, meetings, with a kitchen large enough to  
cook for groups (I hear you, Mich) and as large of a TV as may be  
needed (Rach offers up a 13" with rabbit ears -- so that might not be  
the highest item on her list), etc.

Having communal buildings like that takes away some of the sq ft needs  
of the residences, allowing us to save money, make things cosy without  
being cramped, and lends a structure for individuals to get some alone  
time/space as needed for their temperments.

Part of me wants enough land to have the kind of buffer I alluded to  
with Dave.  An acre to farm, surrounded by woods or some kind of green  
growth, sufficient residential space (that probably comes to >2000 sq  
ft), sufficient office/work space for Rach and me (hard to gauge, but  
that means a minimum of 2000 sq ft for the shop -- my 'office' needs  
are minimal at maybe 200 sq ft).  We in the D-V household are spoiled  
with our current commute -- that will be hard to overcome.

Some families envision the right coho landscape to be an urban  
environment where one can walk to shopping/entertainment.  An  
ancillary pipedream of that would be a regional mass transit system  
access point, too.  Being 'in the thick' of it, but somehow buffered  
from urbania.

Some families envision being within easy driving distance (>30 miles)  
of downtown Raleigh or Durham or C-Hill/Carrboro, but on a semi- 
communal farmlet.

Joe and I have talked about another consideration: building on 'brown'  
lands rather than 'green'.  That means making use of or adopting  
existing structures and developed land for renewal rather than plowing  
up forested land to build 'new'.  There are pros/cons with that:   
finding suitable structures for a 'community', refitting older  
architecture for energy efficiency or habitable space (for instance,  
everything I want to live in or build would need to be ADA-compliant  
for Rob or anticipating my aging parents visiting)  -- is it easier to  
build from the ground up just want we seek?  Or move in trailers just  
to 'get in', and build or refit whatever at a more studied pace that  
better matches cash flow and time constraints?

I think our group needs to better define what elements of this they as  
individual families can and cannot accept.  By better defining our own  
limits to this vision, we might save a lot of time and effort by  
fleshing out and seeing each others' dreams as well as our own.

I'm reading some history texts now (yeah, it's how I fall asleep) --  
going through the great european revolutions of 1793 and onward.  The  
evolution of socialism, Marx/Engels writings like the Communist  
Manifesto; how varied the series of revolutions on the Continent  
were(and still are) -- and what kind of visions were held fo the  
everyman futures.  Every one of the revolutions were driven by more  
than one voice, and even 'voices' like Marx and Engels had, in the  
end, quite different ideas on how the vision would end up or the  
mechanism by which it could be achieved.  Most of these revolutions  
were initially successful because of a big broad (ill-defined) vision  
or a common disgust of the status quo -- and they all kind of fell  
apart because of a lack of communication re the details when moving on  
beyond the initial spasm of 'we're here, now what?'

Thoughts?

Paul

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Denise Barnes
> To: Paul Vail <paul at afterhoursconsulting.org>
> Subject: Re: Update
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> Preservationists are not "against" infill  We're interested in how  
> it's done.  Sometimes we buy a group of homes (e.g., Edenton Cotton  
> Mill Village, Glencoe Mill Village) with the hopes that folks will  
> restore the homes appropriately and include additions that are  
> sensitive to the architecture in the area.
>
> Please keep us in mind and remember that we serve statewide. Maybe  
> we can help in some way.
>
> Best to Rachel, your family and your group.
>
> Denise
>
>
>> Denise,
>>
>> It's been far too long for me to sit down and compose this note.
>>
>> Thank you so very much for my 'Christmas present'.  I truly  
>> appreciate that you sprang for my membership to the Preservation NC  
>> foundation.
>>
>> Rachel and I have spent some time looking through the Fall 2007  
>> issue, marveling at the stories of the restorations.  We are very  
>> supportive of reuse programs, so I got a charge out of reading  
>> about the Lillian Mill.
>>
>> We're part of a 'cohousing' startup group that is looking to see if  
>> we can build -- or find -- a collection of buildings to create a  
>> small community of families.  None of us have much faith in the  
>> future of suburbia, so we're looking at both housing and a little  
>> land.  Maybe we'll become 'gentleperson farmers' of some such  
>> variety.  This group is just at the 'idea' stage, so we're  
>> exploring any and all options right now.  I know there are likely  
>> stipulations on how historic land can be used or developed, but  
>> I'll bring the publication to our next meeting to browse the 'needs  
>> love' properties.
>>
>> Thank you again -- I am very appreciative of your generosity.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>


Paul S. Vail
After Hours Consulting
6013 Old Horseman Trail
Raleigh, NC 27613
919-271-7479
www.afterhoursconsulting.org



From brodiecr at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 11:33:37 2008
From: brodiecr at gmail.com (Chris Brodie)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:33:37 -0500
Subject: [Cohousing] Fwd: Update on Preservation Lands
In-Reply-To: <83369B74-13DD-49E0-8D7A-C61FADA18057@afterhoursconsulting.org>
References: <9e151acf46d861b74c991ff5c64103ba@enrichingpeople.com>
	<83369B74-13DD-49E0-8D7A-C61FADA18057@afterhoursconsulting.org>
Message-ID: <d1dca0210802130833u4d2994x1afd55d16cdbc4b8@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Y'all,

I wanted to let you know that even though I'm not in the coho discussions,
I'm lurking with a passion.

Last year I came to the conclusion that, for our family at least, the big
rate-limiting step for cohousing was cash. Even if we had a great plot of
land, a builder, etc., we just aren't liquid enough. And we don't have much
equity in our house (even if we could sell it in this lousy market). So I'm
pouring all my excess time & energy into earning a little more money right
now. Sounds crass, and I guess it is, but lean finances are standing between
us and many things we value, including better (co)housing.

If y'all achieve critical mass, the Brodies will probably be on board with
whatever compromise solution you come up with--as long as the commute to RTP
isn't horrid. Rising transportation costs will be one of the first changes
we see in the new economy, I predict. Other than that requirement,
big/little, dense/sparse, old/new, urban/suburban/rural considerations are
less important than achieving this vision. That's my personal opinion;
Jennifer may have a different view.

Rock on,

Chris



On Feb 11, 2008 10:16 AM, Paul Vail <paul at afterhoursconsulting.org> wrote:

> Hey gang,
>
> In follow-up to yesterday's meeting, this is just some FYI regarding
> how one of the historic trusts views the properties.
>
> Mich and Dave, I may have left that brochure at your place.  If you
> have created a folder for 'coho' info, kindly dump it within as a
> reference.
>
> Does anyone/everyone think we may be at a place where we need to
> better define what we are (or are not) willing to occupy in terms of
> the 'right' coho environment?
>
> Nancy and I had a side conversation which basically went like this: '
> we *want* something that's close to *this* vision, but if a very
> different environment came along that somehow peaked our interest,
> we'd like to take a look at it.'  (Did I get close, Nancy?)  So that
> does 2 things for me: spawns more varied 'what if' scenarios, and has
> me looking to see what it is that I want to get out of a coho
> situation.  Do I want dense-pack akin to a pseudo town-home village?
> Do I want to live where I hear street noises all day and night?  Am I
> ready to do a coho experiment?
>
> I think I'm ready for that kind of community, but I know that there
> are some things I would like to avoid ('urban noise' -- cars, sirens,
> street lights, endless lawnmowers, leaf blowers, even the near
> constant drone of heat pumps -- it is not something I like or would
> want 'more' of).  I think living in the flight path of RDU is far more
> noise that I like.  Yes, one 'tunes' it out.  But I'd like to do
> without instead.  Some of my favorite memories have been ice storms
> where the sound and light pollution becomes so obvious due to its
> absence.  It's like getting a free deep breath of something clean for
> me.  Then slowly all that 'background' noise returns.
>
> Funny how a 'little' thing becomes important when you sit down to try
> to focus on all the other little things.  I'll move on.
>
> Dave and I have talked and we both feel that going with a local
> (somewhere in the greater Triangle) coho would give us a 'practice
> run' on whatever permanent homestead we'd settle upon in the long-
> term.  The coho solution may turn out to be that permanent solution --
> really don't know that yet.  We both feel that a little space between
> homes gives sufficient elbow room.  Tongue-in-cheek, that means not
> being able to see your neighbor in their underwear hanging laundry in
> the back yard.  Is that important enough to all families to help
> direct where we want to live?
>
> Most families seem ok with concepts of joint commons and land for
> gardening, pasture, woods.  I think we all realize that it comes with
> the unspoken commitment of getting in touch with your inner Amish and
> lending an appropriate hand for helping care for 'common' things as
> needed.
>
> Most families seem ok with concepts of joint workshop/barn, 'though
> 'how large' is a question.  (I'm shooting for 3000 sq ft + myself, but
> if livestock larger than a guinea pig is involved, that number or the
> outbuilding count could grow).
>
> Most famiilies seek ok with concepts of joint play space (a communal
> 'great room' for gatherings, meetings, with a kitchen large enough to
> cook for groups (I hear you, Mich) and as large of a TV as may be
> needed (Rach offers up a 13" with rabbit ears -- so that might not be
> the highest item on her list), etc.
>
> Having communal buildings like that takes away some of the sq ft needs
> of the residences, allowing us to save money, make things cosy without
> being cramped, and lends a structure for individuals to get some alone
> time/space as needed for their temperments.
>
> Part of me wants enough land to have the kind of buffer I alluded to
> with Dave.  An acre to farm, surrounded by woods or some kind of green
> growth, sufficient residential space (that probably comes to >2000 sq
> ft), sufficient office/work space for Rach and me (hard to gauge, but
> that means a minimum of 2000 sq ft for the shop -- my 'office' needs
> are minimal at maybe 200 sq ft).  We in the D-V household are spoiled
> with our current commute -- that will be hard to overcome.
>
> Some families envision the right coho landscape to be an urban
> environment where one can walk to shopping/entertainment.  An
> ancillary pipedream of that would be a regional mass transit system
> access point, too.  Being 'in the thick' of it, but somehow buffered
> from urbania.
>
> Some families envision being within easy driving distance (>30 miles)
> of downtown Raleigh or Durham or C-Hill/Carrboro, but on a semi-
> communal farmlet.
>
> Joe and I have talked about another consideration: building on 'brown'
> lands rather than 'green'.  That means making use of or adopting
> existing structures and developed land for renewal rather than plowing
> up forested land to build 'new'.  There are pros/cons with that:
> finding suitable structures for a 'community', refitting older
> architecture for energy efficiency or habitable space (for instance,
> everything I want to live in or build would need to be ADA-compliant
> for Rob or anticipating my aging parents visiting)  -- is it easier to
> build from the ground up just want we seek?  Or move in trailers just
> to 'get in', and build or refit whatever at a more studied pace that
> better matches cash flow and time constraints?
>
> I think our group needs to better define what elements of this they as
> individual families can and cannot accept.  By better defining our own
> limits to this vision, we might save a lot of time and effort by
> fleshing out and seeing each others' dreams as well as our own.
>
> I'm reading some history texts now (yeah, it's how I fall asleep) --
> going through the great european revolutions of 1793 and onward.  The
> evolution of socialism, Marx/Engels writings like the Communist
> Manifesto; how varied the series of revolutions on the Continent
> were(and still are) -- and what kind of visions were held fo the
> everyman futures.  Every one of the revolutions were driven by more
> than one voice, and even 'voices' like Marx and Engels had, in the
> end, quite different ideas on how the vision would end up or the
> mechanism by which it could be achieved.  Most of these revolutions
> were initially successful because of a big broad (ill-defined) vision
> or a common disgust of the status quo -- and they all kind of fell
> apart because of a lack of communication re the details when moving on
> beyond the initial spasm of 'we're here, now what?'
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Paul
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Denise Barnes
> > To: Paul Vail <paul at afterhoursconsulting.org>
> > Subject: Re: Update
> >
> > Dear Paul,
> >
> > Preservationists are not "against" infill  We're interested in how
> > it's done.  Sometimes we buy a group of homes (e.g., Edenton Cotton
> > Mill Village, Glencoe Mill Village) with the hopes that folks will
> > restore the homes appropriately and include additions that are
> > sensitive to the architecture in the area.
> >
> > Please keep us in mind and remember that we serve statewide. Maybe
> > we can help in some way.
> >
> > Best to Rachel, your family and your group.
> >
> > Denise
> >
> >
> >> Denise,
> >>
> >> It's been far too long for me to sit down and compose this note.
> >>
> >> Thank you so very much for my 'Christmas present'.  I truly
> >> appreciate that you sprang for my membership to the Preservation NC
> >> foundation.
> >>
> >> Rachel and I have spent some time looking through the Fall 2007
> >> issue, marveling at the stories of the restorations.  We are very
> >> supportive of reuse programs, so I got a charge out of reading
> >> about the Lillian Mill.
> >>
> >> We're part of a 'cohousing' startup group that is looking to see if
> >> we can build -- or find -- a collection of buildings to create a
> >> small community of families.  None of us have much faith in the
> >> future of suburbia, so we're looking at both housing and a little
> >> land.  Maybe we'll become 'gentleperson farmers' of some such
> >> variety.  This group is just at the 'idea' stage, so we're
> >> exploring any and all options right now.  I know there are likely
> >> stipulations on how historic land can be used or developed, but
> >> I'll bring the publication to our next meeting to browse the 'needs
> >> love' properties.
> >>
> >> Thank you again -- I am very appreciative of your generosity.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
>
>
> Paul S. Vail
> After Hours Consulting
> 6013 Old Horseman Trail
> Raleigh, NC 27613
> 919-271-7479
> www.afterhoursconsulting.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cohousing mailing list
> Cohousing at mail.rduonline.net
> http://mail.rduonline.net/mailman/listinfo/cohousing
>
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